[Jaspal Marwah]

Hi all, a couple years ago i did a multi day training course, and had the pleasure of using an NDK Pilgrim. I still think about how well this boat fit, how it felt in the water, how much i enjoyed paddling in it. I’m keeping an eye out for used boats, but can’t bring myself to buy a new one for $5k+ … yet 🙂 I saw a Delta 16 which had remarkably similar specs, size, etc to the Pilgrim – wondering if anyone has experience with this boat to share how it handles? Any other suggestions to check out that are good for intermediate paddler?

One more thing about the NDK is it is designed for smaller paddlers, and i’m 5’6/140 so it fit very well, and seeking a boat that is designed with this in mind.

Appreciate any insight!

cheers

edit: my intended use is mostly local recreational ocean paddles, sometimes in wind but not excessively so, and occasional multi day ocean trips. I’d also like to continue developing my paddling technique so a boat that’s enjoyable to manoeuvre as well. Thanks everyone for all the suggestions so far, lots to check out…

Topic

[Richard Magill]

My 2cents?  The Delta 16 isn’t even in the same league as the NDK.  To begin with, they aren’t designed with the same design philosophy in mind.  NDK boats are Brit-boat based.  They are more concerned with performance than stability (though the NDK boats are very stable for Brit-boats).  Delta’s are more of a North American design.  Higher volume.  More stability.  The NDK will have much more rocker,  muck less volume,  and though both boats boast a soft chine, the NDK will be harder than the Delta, all of which means the NDK is much more maneuverable, and I’d argue much more fun.  The Delta’s only real advantage will be that it will hold more cargo than the NDK, and will perhaps feel slightly more stable while sitting still.

I also argue that composite boats are more durable than thermoforms, so if you’re planning on playing in very dynamic waters, either go with a traditional plastic or composite boat.  I’ve heard from credible eye-witnesses that thermoforms can literally break in half in serious enough waters.  I personally have seen thermoform decks crack during re-entry practice.

As for fit, one of the main reasons the NDK you tried out fit so well is because it has a much lower deck than the Delta.  You’ll have to seriously pad out the thigh braces in the Delta to get anywhere near the same feel.  And, if I’m not mistaken, The Pilgrim has a much narrower cockpit than the Delta 16 which means you’ll need some serious hip padding to come close to the Pilgrim fit as well.

Granted, I’m bias (I own an Explorer and a Romany C), but if I were you, I’d definitely choose the Pilgrim over the Delta.  Admittedly though, a lot of the P&H boats already mentioned are good suggestions to try out, as well.

[Kevin Amos]

I have a Delta 16, which I have had probably 4 years. I got it because I was renting and during the pandemic it was hard to do rentals. As was previously mentioned it sort of depends what type of paddling you plan to do. I do day & multi-day trips and it has large hatches to put lots of gear in. The cockpit is pretty big & for smaller paddlers you might want thigh padding for a better fit. The price is good & you will see a fair amount of club members with the 16. Delta is in Maple Ridge so if you ever need repairs this can be handy. If you can try one then that may help in your decision. Some of the rental places may have them or Western Canoe & Kayak may be a dealer. Good Luck

[Jingning Zhang]

Hi Jaspal, I am new to SKABC and Canada/BC area. This is my first post on SKABC. I am also a small paddler 5’4″, 115lb. I have experience with several sea kayaks so I can share some of my thoughts. Here is the list I have owned / paddled

– NDK Pilgrim

– NDK Sportive

– WS Tempest 165

– Valley Avocet RM

– Dagger Stratos 12.5S

It really depends on what you want to do with this kayak, then the suggestion will be different. If you mainly paddle long distance, camping, then Tempest 165 and Avocet are good choice. If you like surfing and rock gardening, then Stratos 12.5S is best choice. If you want something in between, then Sportive can be a good idea.

For the size: Avocet might be the biggest in these boat, and Sportive probably has the lowest volume. Avocet is too big for me, but might fit you well. I sold the Avocet.

For speed: Tempest 165 > Avocet > Pilgrim > Sportive > Stratos 12.5

Tempest 165 is faster but less responsive than others (harder to turn)

I like Stratos 12.5 S a lot, and I took it down the Grand Canyon self support. It is my best choice for surfing and handling whitewater.

Valley Avocet composite has LV (low volume) version, but the plastic one doesn’t have LV. I think the Avocet LV will fit me well, but I never have opportunity to try it.

Other boats I have paddled just once, but I think they are better for playing

– Aries 150

– Virgo LV

– Delphin 150

I would also try Aries 150 if there is one available for a good price, I heard it’s a good boat for surfing.

Virgo LV is good for surfing / rock gardening, but slower than Sportive. It is slightly too big for me, but might fit you well.

Delphin 150 is good for paddling and playing, but it’s too big for me. Might also be slightly big for you.

Good luck on getting a boat.

Jenny

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